replying on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina
10 Apr 2005, 9:32 PM
1) Only a Californian would think that. Maybe you live in Santa Barbara County (black population: 2%)?
How did the bad black people you've encountered give rise to this poem? I'm genuinely curious.
How did the bad black people you've encountered give rise to this poem? I'm genuinely curious.
on MOMENTS From A Madman's Mind by PsydewaysTears
9 Apr 2005, 10:56 PM
You can't be amidst a mind. You can be amidst minds, or amidst the wrinkly lobes of a brain.
PS-congratulations on staging the return of napkins to poemranker. It's been a while.
-10-
PS-congratulations on staging the return of napkins to poemranker. It's been a while.
-10-
on science by whispern_smoke_wisp
9 Apr 2005, 10:51 PM
You're wrong. Dogs do love humans. They've evolved to love humans. They evolved that way because the pack-behavior and imprinting that help them find food and fend off predators in the wild reacts well to a different-species dominant male (i.e., a human owner).
Jared Diamond writes extensively on the topic in Guns, Germs, and Steel, before going on to discuss how zebras, though pack-oriented, have never been successfully domesticated. Nor even very well tamed, except by the eccentric Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, who once rode a zebra-driven cart into Buckingham Palace (http://www.nhm.ac.uk/museum/tring/histo
PS-I propose you think dogs don't really love humans because they have reasons for loving us, while you expect love to be somehow, I don't know, unconditional and profitless for the lover. That's just crazy.
Jared Diamond writes extensively on the topic in Guns, Germs, and Steel, before going on to discuss how zebras, though pack-oriented, have never been successfully domesticated. Nor even very well tamed, except by the eccentric Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, who once rode a zebra-driven cart into Buckingham Palace (http://www.nhm.ac.uk/museum/tring/histo
PS-I propose you think dogs don't really love humans because they have reasons for loving us, while you expect love to be somehow, I don't know, unconditional and profitless for the lover. That's just crazy.
on a note on content by not_a_philosopher
9 Apr 2005, 10:47 PM
You don't have more than a middle-schooler's familiarity with poetry, do you?
replying on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina
9 Apr 2005, 10:46 PM
Incidentally, it was 40 acres and a mule, not ten. Both of you tear up your Minority Membership/Discount Cards. Now.
replying on Mixtapes (or We Always End Where We Began) by philn
9 Apr 2005, 10:33 PM
Yeah, we know. That's exactly what John Cusack thought in High Fidelity. So it's just not a very original idea.
replying on Moments (or) Suicide by Dovina
9 Apr 2005, 10:26 PM
"Internal punctuation" only means punctuation that occurs in the middle of any sentence, i.e., commas, semicolons, colons, and so on. Yes, there is a tradition in poetry of not always punctuating at line-ends, but that's not it. The "internal" doesn't mean "in the line".
replying on Moments (or) Suicide by Dovina
9 Apr 2005, 10:21 PM
Better grammatically.
Except I don't think it's a just worth. Still, you've dealt with that well enough; the narrator's obviously supposed to be a suicidal loser.
Except I don't think it's a just worth. Still, you've dealt with that well enough; the narrator's obviously supposed to be a suicidal loser.
on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina
9 Apr 2005, 10:18 PM
This is among the top, oh, five most disastrous things you've ever written. Some questions:
1) What "freedom", "authority" and "power"? Oh, you mean the Black President. Or maybe you mean for the oppressed in your poem to be Middle-aged white women, and the oppressed group men who would be secretaries but (until recently) were denied the opportunity.
2) Are you being ironic?
3) Do you know?
4) If you are, do you really mean the exact opposite (like ironists tend to do)?
5) Have you ever read Margaret Atwood's short story "Rape Fantasies"? You should.
6) Do you think you can still be friends with al-naafiiysh, blacksoul, and jroday after this?
7) No vote.
1) What "freedom", "authority" and "power"? Oh, you mean the Black President. Or maybe you mean for the oppressed in your poem to be Middle-aged white women, and the oppressed group men who would be secretaries but (until recently) were denied the opportunity.
2) Are you being ironic?
3) Do you know?
4) If you are, do you really mean the exact opposite (like ironists tend to do)?
5) Have you ever read Margaret Atwood's short story "Rape Fantasies"? You should.
6) Do you think you can still be friends with al-naafiiysh, blacksoul, and jroday after this?
7) No vote.
replying on Moments (or) Suicide by Dovina
8 Apr 2005, 6:00 AM
Then I think the sentence is unnecessarily jumbled to the point of incomprehensibility. It starts off well enough
"My life reviewed and judged like this might be considered in some dark hour not just bunk" is fine, and seems to get at the point you want to make, which from what I gather is that people SHOULD do it in suicidal moments, but don't. Even adding "but as in this ordinary time" works - your life might be considered not just bunk but as [it's considered] in this ordinary time [i.e., worthwhile].
But you can't say, for example, "my life might be considered not just bunk for its just evaluation" which is grammatically, semantically, or whateverally equivalent to what you're saying. Do you see what I mean? To parse even further (but keep the grammar) you've got "My life might be considered for its evaluation". There's the problem. You can say "My life might be considered for its just value" or "My way of evaluating my life might be considered a just evaluation", but your life itself isn't being considered for evaluation. At the very least, you'd have to change "for" to "by" - and that's neither poetic nor particularly meaningful. Me, I'd change evaluation to "value", "worth", or "valuation".
"My life reviewed and judged like this might be considered in some dark hour not just bunk" is fine, and seems to get at the point you want to make, which from what I gather is that people SHOULD do it in suicidal moments, but don't. Even adding "but as in this ordinary time" works - your life might be considered not just bunk but as [it's considered] in this ordinary time [i.e., worthwhile].
But you can't say, for example, "my life might be considered not just bunk for its just evaluation" which is grammatically, semantically, or whateverally equivalent to what you're saying. Do you see what I mean? To parse even further (but keep the grammar) you've got "My life might be considered for its evaluation". There's the problem. You can say "My life might be considered for its just value" or "My way of evaluating my life might be considered a just evaluation", but your life itself isn't being considered for evaluation. At the very least, you'd have to change "for" to "by" - and that's neither poetic nor particularly meaningful. Me, I'd change evaluation to "value", "worth", or "valuation".
replying on Make Music in Your Heart by Dovina
8 Apr 2005, 5:38 AM
I mean, I understand the need to build people up with some nice comment or a bit showing you get how clever they are, and in real life I do. But I don't think poemranker users care very much what anybody says to them one way or the other, so it's not like it matters. And personally, I don't think making music is a very nice metaphor for writing. Sorry.
replying on Prayer For The Church by sliver
8 Apr 2005, 5:31 AM
I doubt even sliver would suggest that.
All things considered, I think he's about two comments away from saying God preknows the number of people who will pray for a certain outcome, which happens to be the exact number he requires to provide that outcome, which happens to be the outcome he wanted anyway. And then we'll all be swimming in it.
Consider: Far fewer people prayed for Terri Schiavo to be spared the indignity of lifelong tubing than prayed for her to continue her tubed and vegetable existence, but God went for the detubing anyway.
All things considered, I think he's about two comments away from saying God preknows the number of people who will pray for a certain outcome, which happens to be the exact number he requires to provide that outcome, which happens to be the outcome he wanted anyway. And then we'll all be swimming in it.
Consider: Far fewer people prayed for Terri Schiavo to be spared the indignity of lifelong tubing than prayed for her to continue her tubed and vegetable existence, but God went for the detubing anyway.
on Church of Puerto Vallarta by James Rykelangeli
7 Apr 2005, 6:35 AM
Consider making more, shorter sentences.
replying on Make Music in Your Heart by Dovina
7 Apr 2005, 6:16 AM
You just think that because we don't make comments like "How nice it is to make music as a metaphor for writing" just to show how ace we are for getting it.
replying on Moments (or) Suicide by Dovina
7 Apr 2005, 6:03 AM
By the last "evaluation", do you mean something like "value" or "worth"?
If so (and that's not at all clear) maybe it would be better to use the word "valuation" instead.
PS-I don't see why you don't have to judge your life by all the times that weren't Moments. I imagine if I were some total slob with no Moments except for achieving a single spectacular "arrival", which also happened to kill me. Would I go to heaven?
If so (and that's not at all clear) maybe it would be better to use the word "valuation" instead.
PS-I don't see why you don't have to judge your life by all the times that weren't Moments. I imagine if I were some total slob with no Moments except for achieving a single spectacular "arrival", which also happened to kill me. Would I go to heaven?
replying on No Worries by Dovina
7 Apr 2005, 5:44 AM
Oh, so can we define closed-mindedness from here on as:
"Closed-minded people refuse to consider a proposition for reasons other than its content OR for reasons related to its content"?
Hey, thanks a lot.
"Closed-minded people refuse to consider a proposition for reasons other than its content OR for reasons related to its content"?
Hey, thanks a lot.
replying on Prayer For The Church by sliver
7 Apr 2005, 5:37 AM
I see what you mean.
By the same token, looking at why I'm wearing a striped shirt under a plaid sportcoat, courderoys, and sandals on a balmy summer day in the MidEast is going to lead nowhere. You could try addressing it from my position, but that would require squatting bareassed over a two-inch wide hole in the floor while feebly trying to force your raisin'd insides into some kind of productive motion. And I wouldn't recommend it if it's at all avoidable.
The validity of prayer is mostly that it makes people prone to illogic and feelings of powerlessness feel good. No one's denying that. Considering, though, that this argument's about Jesu's Gethsemene prayer, and He's neither of those, it's just not very relevant.
re the last bit: Oh... Well it's been nice talking to you. Sort of.
By the same token, looking at why I'm wearing a striped shirt under a plaid sportcoat, courderoys, and sandals on a balmy summer day in the MidEast is going to lead nowhere. You could try addressing it from my position, but that would require squatting bareassed over a two-inch wide hole in the floor while feebly trying to force your raisin'd insides into some kind of productive motion. And I wouldn't recommend it if it's at all avoidable.
The validity of prayer is mostly that it makes people prone to illogic and feelings of powerlessness feel good. No one's denying that. Considering, though, that this argument's about Jesu's Gethsemene prayer, and He's neither of those, it's just not very relevant.
re the last bit: Oh... Well it's been nice talking to you. Sort of.
Black people still don't have freedom or equality of pay, opportunity, education, or power across the board. Sure, my greatgreatgreatgrandparents, had they been rich enough, would have enslaved yours, but also my grandparents are racist, belittle minorities, and deny them opportunities. My parents belittle minorities and deny them opportunities. And tons of people in my generation, myself probably no exception, continue the problem by often-unnoticeable actions.
What I was trying to point out is that Dovina's thinking (in the poem) that the problem's solved now, was solved years ago, and she had nothing to do with it is simply nuts. Who needs to go back even a generation to find crimes/persecution against black people? And at the very least, I'd say Dovina has very few black friends in the outside world.
Besides, what a preposterous suggestion - that one side's history of (and continuing) institutionalized oppression can be "balanced out" or "made up for" by black people whupping white ass for a while! If an intelligent black person's ever seriously considered it, I'm a stuck pig.
And besides, black people have been ignoring white people in their verse, culture, etc, from the beginning. Only a Eurocentrist in the extreme would even imagine she had a place in black verse to be belittled. (For Dovina: Disagree? Consider checking out Gullah culture, Hoodoo culture, Slave culture, Jack Tales, the Harlem Renaissance, jazz, and hip-hop, to name a very, very few.)
In short, I don't think you're going to give up your friendship with Dovina because of this poem, because I think you see, as I do, that Dovina doesn't really mean to be offensive; she just doesn't know very well what she's saying. That's all I'm trying to point out to her. Really, I've got no beef with Dovina except that she doesn't express herself very well. All things considered, her heart's pretty close to the right place.