I will look it up. Maturity is your word not mine.

GW do you mean me or Dark Angel? Maybe I'm getting paranoid and need lithium

gw, I have read other comments by you and "maturity" seems one of your themes............I felt (if incorrectly) you were looking for the same from whitesmith's stuff. I apologise for the misunderstanding.

why do people insist on putting word's in my mouth/ When did I say Mr. cummings was simple? Some of his poems have a certain simplicity simplicity to them. i never stated all his poems are simple. Please don't assume you know what I'm talking about. At least mchthtmky (I've forgotten how to spellhis name) asked questions.

Excuse me, I misread you statement "He's a terrific example of simplicity." I was referring to that and the other person's "Kiss" theory. Thus, I was not placing words in anyone's mouth. However, I do suggest you approach ee cummings from a different vantage point. Don't simply be seduced with the sounds but look at the context and the sub-context of the work. He is quite the intriguing fellow.

all that aside, I have been arguing with everyone it seems about exactly that. The turn of the phrase. The fact that poetry is not meter or emotion per se. Anyone can paint a tree, that doesn't mean it's a good painting of a tree. I've been taking alot of gruff for my stand on this. For you to confront me on this very point is, well, dare I say it, ironic,

Good moring Christof, I was refering to Dark Angel's disputing other people's definitions of poetry, but then having the tenacity to post his own narrow explanation diagnosis. It's these machines that make it hard to distinguish precisely what people are saying or whom.

I love e.e. cummings. I think the first time i read him i must have been 8 or 9. He made me excited about the possibilities of words. He's a terrific example of simplicity, but he had a particular genius for words which he developed. i'm not saying don't keep it simple, I only mean make it more interesting. -- humble one(gifted with illimitable joy)/birdsing's love's every truth/beyond all since and why/asking no favor but/(while down come blundering proud hugenesses of hate/sometimes called world)to sing.-- cummings always added that little touch of detail the makes his poetry accesible to humans.

complete in growth. As in 'He matured the poem by constant revision.

So, just what is not mature about the above? Freeform style is not about detail and complexity, in fact *poetry* is best when simple and direct. Read ee cummings and you'll see what I mean KISS=Keep It Simple....S____

Are you published? Have you self published? I'm interested in having some of your poems in a proper book I can read.

gw, read "anyone lives in a pretty how town" : http://www.poets.org/poems/poems.cfm?prmID=1185 and see that your same comments on whitesmiths stuff can also apply.... you still haven't answered my ? about what maturity you feel is lacking. As I said before it's about soul expression, not satisfying your need for information. Read the feeling, don't question the whys and wherefores. poetry reading ain't about analyzing the words, simply acquiring the image of the soul

I like this alot. 9. The piece is pithy yet detailed, and the final line is beautifully simple in comparison to the vague imagery of the poem. Nice one.

Generally I despise this type of hogwash, but this is short enough to be acceptable. If you'd rambled on for much longer in this vein I'd have given you a deserved slating, but have a 3 for not inflicting too much upon me. I don't like the poem much at all though. There's far too much of this melancholy dross being banded about.

A good poem. Have an 8 madam. There's nothing wrong with a bit of sentiment now and again, providing it's not dripping with the usual kind of slushy imagery which can be found in the vast majority of these kind of poems. This isn't; it's different and I too love 'naive as turnips'. The ending of the poem is nicely done as well - the short, stacato lines add valuable punch to the poem's conclusion. A job well done.

This is quite the humorous statement. I am sure the dead poets are frolicking in their graves with laughter. "Soul expression" aside, poetry is an extremely laborious craft, much as is any other form of creative endeavor. It is so much more than your naivet?? is letting on and frankly, poetry is all about words. If not it would be painting, or music, or the like. You use the words to express and the expression should say something through images, simile, metaphor, you get the drift. And as for old e.e., I think you are both underestimating him by calling him simple. Maybe you should look a bit more carefully, at what he is doing with words and grammar. Soul expression is best left for the daily diary. Poetry should be treated as a craft that takes an enormous amount of work.

How is it you know what the whole point of poetry is, but everyone elses perceptions on the subject of what poetry is, are invalid?

This stinks. 1. I'm afraid I find it terribly cliched, and would have no desire to ever see this finished. Go away and work on something a little more original.

Distinctly average Mr. Angel. 5. Your prodigious output clearly has an impact upon your quality control.

More incisive poetry Tascobar. However, I regretfully feel that you have taken inspiration from others with this piece, and so can only award a 4. Nice try, buddy.