Re: a comment on Reasonably Good by Dovina	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/2:57 PM
This is precisely what i mean by saying that any other conclusion leads to misuse of language so as to justify reality... what seems to you, simply is not. the only magical property that truth contains is that it is not able to be misinterpreted. truth is only truth when properly communicated lest we seek for our meaning to be lost. it is definitely not a prerequisite to discovery that we have preconception of discovery at all; such a conclusion is the perfect examply of warping language so as to justify false reality - your practical example of antithesis? -adam and eve having no knowledge walk around an unfamiliar world having no idea of a thing called fruit and stumble upon (discover) a thing called an apple tree. they were not looking for any thing in particular, in fact, they weren't seeking out any individual thing at all, yet, they made a discovery with absolutely no preconception of anything at all except for maybe the fact that they might exist in reality...and even that, even today, is not a total truth; whether you accept that or not. in reality, i would define truth as more of a marble in a pitch black room; those who slip and fall on it usually can't find where it rolled to after they get back up...I see you're still on the ground assuming that you can describe the thing that made you fall. at any rate, i'd love to sit down over coffee and let you discover the reality of what i think, but it appears you already have some preconception of what i am, so, despite the fact (in your reality) that you are seeking me through your preconception of what i am, i doubt you'll discover what's inside because you've already deflected me off your closed mind. peace, sean
Re: a comment on stab in the dark by not_a_philosopher	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/2:46 PM
because any religion (perhaps the universalists are the exception) requires a submission to faith which requires acceptance of illogical and unreasonable "truths." Even atheism requires that one submit oneself to accepting that which "might" be...the only logical and reasonable conclusion when questioning the existence of God, or gods, or whatever, is that we will probably never know whether or not there is a god. Any other conclusion requires us to fool ourselves into using our language incorrectly so as to justify our reality. After reading your first reply and desiring more for meaning, I read some of your previous posts. I am left wondering, after what seems like a long history of constructive criticism, why you choose to be overly vague and aggressive in your posts today? peace, sean
Re: a comment on stab in the dark by not_a_philosopher	richa 81.178.191.105	22-Mar-05/2:28 PM
How does a submission to logic and reason make you an agnostic? [50]
Re: Paris 1941-63 by Mister Cakes	johnnyfontaine23 84.67.2.1	22-Mar-05/2:25 PM
A shoe-in for a poetry prize.
Re: a comment on Reasonably Good by Dovina	richa 81.178.191.105	22-Mar-05/2:25 PM
It seems to me that you both claim truth as something which can be picked up by an open mind and deflected by a closed one. For this to happen however would require you to recognise truth when it comes to bite you on the nose. That you believe you would recognise it to me signifies you are both attributing some kind of magical property to truth that seperates it from falsehood. Don't you maybe think that to discover something you must first be looking for it and have some idea what 'it' is and hence require preconception?
Re: a comment on The Populous by durr_T_hip_E	richa 81.178.191.105	22-Mar-05/2:13 PM
The most rewarding aspect of the assymetry of conversation borne out by the internet is not the lying and getting away with it but rather the watching of other people lying then waiting for them to be damned by their own words.
Re: Tribulations of the ear and eye by oneglove	Dovina 12.72.5.2	22-Mar-05/1:08 PM
The eye and ear high-tail it, dissatisfied. Okay, but "atrophied"? maybe "starved.” The “greatest gift” of the heart seems left alone and undeveloped. Maybe it needs a tender helping hand.
Re: Tribulations of the ear and eye by oneglove	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/12:53 PM
Good...very good overall... nice approach; i like how you maintained mystery in meaning until the last few lines. i love the perspective, very creative, unique...and, i love the message. Here's why you got an 8 instead of a 10...you, are obviously a poet, and a decent one at that; yet, at least in this piece, your eyes and ears are not poets - the propositions within the quotes are the bulk of the foundation, yet, the things that break your rhythm as we read it...my only suggestion, if you were looking for any, would be to play with the things you have the eyes and ears saying to see if you can smooth them in with the rest of the vervish beat. peace, sean
Re: a comment on The Populous by durr_T_hip_E	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/12:46 PM
LOL...thanx for the feedback...much appreciated...i don't usually title my poems, "the populous" just popped in my head when i went to post it here... as far as conceptual value...well, i guess that depends on our individual value systems. obviously, no generalization can apply to every single individual on the planet...this poem is my attempt to describe most of the people who have graced my existence - imperfect, yet, perfect, innocent and always shooting for more... punctuation, well, whatever - this was originally published in a quarterly journal with punctuation - i recently started playing with some old poems and removing punctuation for presentation and effect - i guess i know how it's perceived in this piece! as far as something personal, well, i'm sorry my words failed to set off any associations in your memory... better luck next time.. thanx for the critique, peace, sean
Re: a comment on Reasonably Good by Dovina	Dovina 12.72.5.2	22-Mar-05/12:43 PM
I think we're saying almost the same thing and tangling ourselves in words. Peace.
Re: The Populous by durr_T_hip_E	Dovina 12.72.5.2	22-Mar-05/12:38 PM
I’m following your butler of a title, and assuming this houseful of descriptions applies to the people as a whole. Frankly, I find that concept too broad for value. Still, the flow is good and the descriptions vaguely valid. I wish for greater definition, punctuation perhaps, and something personal.
Re: a comment on Reasonably Good by Dovina	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/12:37 PM
btw..i still like the poem...and also believe that, in reality, or, at least in application, our philosophies probably equate to an equally pleasing journey through life.... thanx for the reply and best of luck peace, sean
Re: a comment on Reasonably Good by Dovina	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/12:35 PM
If you have no view of the world then you certainly cannot have a view of that which is not the world and is out of sight... beauty and good do NOT demand that we form structures of judgment, quite the contrary, if we are to perceive anything as good or beautiful, that perception cannot be weighted down by some outside force which confines, else your world be constrained and the full beauty of that around you lost to some restricted definition that you BELIEVE you know due to your presumption that the truth has found its way to you... my point, perhaps miscommunicated, is that you cannot achieve the ends you seek, at least within the context of human interaction and behavior, by judging those human variables... ANY judgment made without ALL KNOWLEDGE, is prejuidace and false...you are NOT God....nor are you anywhere near the greatest scholar of all of history, therefore, you have not nearly enough KNOWLEDGE to judge anything... your words, like nearly all words, are subjective, and in no way assert some profound truth that has been passed over by more able minds. peace, sean p.s. sympathy is useless, save your sympathy for me and my non-judgmental worldview and use it on a dieing child in ethiopia
Re: THE BEST POEM EVER!!!!!! by ?-Dave_Mysterious-?	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/12:25 PM
LOL...as i see below...somewhere....under my nose...2 tens scored upon the board and a group of pedophiles in tow!!! This is hilarious...I love you... Peace, Sean P.S. Due to my interest in beautiful women and receiving head, you get a ten!
Re: a comment on Reasonably Good by Dovina	Dovina 12.72.5.2	22-Mar-05/12:18 PM
Dear Sean, I’m sorry you have a worldview. It holds a person back from receiving truth, like blinders on a horse steady it in the master’s chosen direction. Having a worldview, you will applaud my response if it conforms and reject it otherwise, no matter what insights it contains. For that you have my sympathy. God, or a symbolic god as you say, cannot even be perceived without an underlying belief in the concepts of Beauty and Good. If all we have with which to evaluate the world is reason, then life does not extend beyond birth and death. The poem’s message is to look at Good and Beauty (Verse 3) and to say with tongue in cheek that I know the difference between good and bad, beautiful and ugly (Verse 4) Then having assured myself of what is good and beautiful, or at least the methods I will use to determine them, I surpass the waypoints of birth and death.
Re: stab in the dark by not_a_philosopher	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/12:13 PM
I have at times considered myself atheist, at times catholic, at times a strongly NON catholic christian, and now I call myself agnostic out of submission to reason and logic...now onto your poem and some minor psychoanalysis: you're a narcissistic, self centered, drug addict; let me explain...the most frequently used word in your poem is (no surprise) "I" you used the word "I" six times in eleven lines which means that over fifty percent of your propositions were from YOUR perspective...not that we can ever truly get out of our own perspective...but, you make it glaringly apparent that the focus of this communication is YOU. you also use the word "my" twice bringing your total references to SELF up to eight out of a total of 60 words meaning that at least 12% of the symbols that leave your lips mean "you." that should cover the narcissistic self centered part of my analysis. now, you're a drug addict...religion truly is the opiate for the masses...it allows us, in our mind, to take our self out of the center of our universe and replace that center, usually, with a god who is now the one responsible for EVERYTHING from creation on...god loves us when all the world hates us...god explains when we can't...god gives us an image of perfection to strive for and forgives us when we don't hit the mark...blah blah blah...god gives us happiness... B.S. you are responsible for your choices you are responsible for the effect your behavior and words have upon others (for example, some atheist getting slightly upset because some christian claims that happiness cannot be found outside of god) happiness, i have found, is more about tolerance, acceptance, and forgiveness of others and their flaws....more about accepting the fact that bad things happen....about accepting the fact that YOU WILL DIE and making the most out of every moment you have with every emotion you create from your delusional little worldview (btw...all of our worldviews, especially mine, are delusional). But, in the end, whatever makes you happy; if you need to damn people like me to some symbollic hell in the back of your psyche, go nutz if that makes you happy, just don't ever try to take your self-righteous judgment public; i'd hate to see the people lieing bloody on the pavement just because some psycho christian believed they could tell the difference between true good and true evil. Peace, Sean
Re: Reasonably Good by Dovina	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/11:53 AM
Love the rhythm...like the word choice...and I may be misreading the message... am I to conclude (my first assumption) that you, like the symbollic God, KNOW the difference between good and bad/evil? If this is the case then your ideology is diametrically opposed to my whole entire worldview and I can't stand the message... however, it could, by some stretch of logic, be concluded that you have no clue what you're talking about and only the symbollic God could ever truly judge these things; in which case, i applaud your philosophy and the poem as a whole...for now you get your magnificent 7 to go with your magnificent ego. Good work overall as a poem...maybe add a dash of love to spice it up or something... Peace, Sean
Re: A good little poem by INTRANSIT	durr_T_hip_E 68.254.156.173	22-Mar-05/11:46 AM
I'm not sure what it is; unfortunately, the delusional worldly web in my mind simply doesn't like it. I like pickles so you got one point for that. And, I like rye bread, so you got another for that. But, all I see here is you telling me that when you think of bread and infomercials, you also think of pessimism and things that didn't work so that you may appreciate the fresh pickle in your mouth. If you wanted me to picture some random guy eating a pickle on rye, then good job. Peace, Sean
Re: The Sidekick Retires From Fairview's Finest by luzrheroguy	oneglove 205.133.194.138	22-Mar-05/11:43 AM
at times very cliche but very smooth, i liked the line "And how hair could be the perfect accent to a face", the last two verses arent as strong as the rest of it. i think it would be even stronger if you just cut them out. overall good job *8*
Re: a comment on Rusty knife to the kidney by INTRANSIT	Dovina 12.72.10.2	22-Mar-05/10:08 AM
It is poetry or poetrye because INTRANSIT wrote it and because I have found most of his poems uniquely saying things I understand and relate to. This one in particular is terse, masculine, and tight. Go ahead and tell me about my sexual attraction based on what I just said. Everythiung is sexual; I can only speak from a sexual position. If you live in a universe where that's not the case, I have no objection.