poemranker ::Noblesse Oblige by Christof

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Free verse № 17044

Noblesse Oblige

by Christof

Member since 2002 · Posted 25 Sep 2002 · 62 comments

Five oak chairs. There once were six But some fat fool leaned back too hard While passing the port. They'll fetch less now the set is gone. It's a crime because Her father's forefather picked them up In sixteen-something in an Irish bog He was taming for Cromwell. See, The family has always believed in democracy. So, in memory Of her night in a van with a plasterer Who reeked of lager but you had to love His orphanage face and his hopeless laughter When she told him, see, I'm no ordinary daughter, She's selling her father's chairs To raise cash for the Socialist Worker.

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62 comments

[8] Nicholas Jones 25-Sep-02/4:01 AM Reply
Have you been watching Bargain Hunt? David Dickinson is like a god. Anyway, this is great. I love the idea of selling antiques in the name of socialism. Perhaps I will devote myself to this when I finish my PhD. You bring in history (Cromwell and Ireland) in a way that fits with the poem and is integrated into it.
[n/a] Christof › Nicholas Jones 25-Sep-02/4:04 AM Reply
I don't know what I like more - Dickinson's big white teeth, his tan or those incredible multi-coloured specs. None of which, I suspect, was as cheap as chips. Glad you liked the pome - partially inspired, I must admit, by that programme on girls at St Hilda's Oxford. Did you see it? I met lots like that when I was at Ox and some things never change.
[8] Nicholas Jones › Christof 25-Sep-02/4:06 AM Reply
I didn't see the programme, but there were people like at St. Andrews too. People who pretended to be far posher than they were. Thankfully, you meet very few people like that in Swansea!
[n/a] Christof › Nicholas Jones 25-Sep-02/4:07 AM Reply
And Willesden Green....
[8] Nicholas Jones › Nicholas Jones 25-Sep-02/4:09 AM Reply
It is good that we can use Poemranker for a private conversation. All the americans must be in bed. When they log on tomorrow they'll wonder what was going on.

I think I might have some brie for lunch.
[n/a] Christof › Nicholas Jones 25-Sep-02/4:11 AM Reply
Good choice of cheese. I'm a Stilton man myself but a nice floppy brie, lovely... Yep, I think the names of Swansea and Willesden Green are going to be quite alien to our transatlantic friends.

I must be off actually. I actually have some work to do beofer lunch. How uncivilised.
[8] INTRANSIT 25-Sep-02/5:18 AM Reply
Never got to go to a big college like you blokes. Maybe I'm better for it. Who knows. I should read some cromwell. Ireland has been calling me for years.(i'dbetter go soon) Ports are heavy but go well with tiramisu. I like parrano myself. Great content good beat.8
[n/a] Christof › INTRANSIT 25-Sep-02/6:14 AM Reply
You're probably much better for it, believe me. I'm going to try the port/tiramisu combination. Yum.
[n/a] knickytoy › Christof 25-Sep-02/6:53 AM Reply
You guys are making me hungry! Maybe I'll try a poem about cheese.
This poem is excellent. Good visuals.+
[8] <~> 25-Sep-02/6:55 AM Reply
ha! love it christof. nicely done.
[9] god'swife 25-Sep-02/7:37 AM Reply
You're sick with talent. How do I learn to write about things outside myself? I love feeling incompetent. It motivates me.
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/7:41 AM Reply
You're too too kind, Mrs God, thank you. But you're very far from incompetent. And I write about things other than myself because I find it easier, which might say something about my precarious state!
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/7:48 AM Reply
Precarious? You seem grounded from here. Phd., job, wife. Are you a closet bohemian? Do you long for opium heavy orgies? Drunken brawling? Are you a English rose who longs for the gutter?
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/7:52 AM Reply
My main thing is being unable to look at myself - I just find it much easier to project everything onto other people. No centre, you see, just a big observing eye. I've tried the gutter and it just pissed me off. Whoa, I'm feeling confessional today!
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/7:59 AM Reply
There's most definitely a centre. Sweet and chewy. Just have to get through the glass exterior. I don't envy men.
[9] god'swife › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:04 AM Reply
Is it because men are too sensitive to allow themselves to walk down that path, or because it's preceived asunmasculine to be affected?
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:09 AM Reply
Maybe there is a preconception about masculinity, but I think it's also something more fundamental. Perhaps men still feel they're supposed to be active providers etc. and so shouldn't think about their innermost motives and desires, a sort of tyranny of action and pragmatism. Because there's a lot of comfort in action. Keep on acting and you never have to think.
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:12 AM Reply
But some men are thinkers, you for example. How do explain a thinker's fear of the self?
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:14 AM Reply
It's as if, at the last minute, you want to turn away from the great fascinating unknown thing in case it comes up and bites you. I don't know about any of this. I might be talking out of my hat.
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:28 AM Reply
I like this definition of it. As Mr. Cobain said; With the lights out it's less dangerous, here we are now entertain us, .....a denial , a denial, a denial.
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:29 AM Reply
Christ that's absolutely right. My respect for Kurt is evermore increased. That's exactly it.
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:04 AM Reply
Men seem to have a fear of the self. A lot do, anyway. Neither Jung nor Freud can explain this!
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:08 AM Reply
Can you? What's your take on it?
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:12 AM Reply
I'm no psychologist but... I wonder if it's bred into us. I sometimes wonder if it's being English as well, we seem particularly bad at that sort of thing.
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:21 AM Reply
I been looking for the answers for a long time now. I don't think it changes much among western cultures, Americans and Latinos have a huge problem with identify what emotions they're feeling, let alone expressing them. My son still cries every day. His friends are easily moved emotionally. I wonder which has more to do woth it, the sudden flood of testosterone or the culture telling them to be men. Mt boyfriend is a poster boy for the healthy American male. He's as tender as a lamb. I think I'm one of the few who has the previlege to know it. But around the house he's very emotional
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:23 AM Reply
Good for him. I only get emotional in the dark. And you know i think tesosterone has a lot to do with it. The double-edged sword of masculinity.
[2] poetandknowit › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:26 AM Reply
We had the breast taken away to early. Our fear of abandonment reigns strong and forces up unnecessary defense mechanisms that we think are necessary to our mere survival. That is why we head out into the woods, bang drums and find our feminine side.
[n/a] Christof › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:28 AM Reply
Fear of abandonment definitely. Heading into woods, definitely. But no drum banging. It's not dignified.
[8] <~> › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:33 AM Reply
but it's sexy as hell.
[9] god'swife › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:31 AM Reply
But if it were up to you boys you'd never have the breast taken away. I breast fed til my son was 2. The Doctor hated me for it, I didn't want to give it up. Cheap and nutririon and fullfilling for both of us. Tell me more please.
[2] poetandknowit › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:39 AM Reply
I never had a breast and that has made all the difference. You have a good chance to raise a decent man (one not within the boundaries of a media definitions or marketing ploys). The only problem he might run into (as I did being raised only by a woman) is that at some point he might run into a period of over exaggerated testosterone (i.e. taking the offensive to make up for a lack of a male figure, unless, of course, he has one). Hey, just make sure he stands up to go pee!
[8] <~> › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:43 AM Reply
do you stand up to pee? does your daughter stand to pee? my, these gender issues are so cut and dry!
[2] poetandknowit › <~> 25-Sep-02/8:51 AM Reply
I did not know you were supposed to. Observation is key. My mother never said otherwise. Needless to say, I learned the hard way. What the fuck is a urinal, how do I sit in that? Oh the shame, the shame!!!
[8] <~> › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:54 AM Reply
you kinky bastard! i knew you liked to watch!
[n/a] Christof › <~> 25-Sep-02/8:56 AM Reply
Although one never watches at the urinal as a full-grown man. That leads to trouble.
[2] poetandknowit › Christof 25-Sep-02/9:01 AM Reply
Just ask George Michael. Thank god for graffiti and bathroom wall advertising.
[8] <~> › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:55 AM Reply
(sorry. that was off-topic.)
[9] god'swife › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:59 AM Reply
That's important information. Who would think it? My son sort of instinctly would take his penis out and pee against a tree or something, like a pup. I wonder if you ever did that.
[n/a] Christof › god'swife 25-Sep-02/9:00 AM Reply
I still do.
[9] god'swife › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:45 AM Reply
You know what, I believe he might be the luckiest boy in the world. Although he lost his father and his grandfather by the tender age of four, they left a strong prescence. My dearest and closest friend is an ideal romodel in many ways. My son call's him Uncle Matthew. My boyfriend has taken on the role of father to a certain degree. The limits defined by the boy. My nieces are both married to wonderful men. He's been in the Scouts with the same group of boys since he was 8 so the leaders now them as well as we parents do. He refuses to pee sitting down, but til he was 5 he called his underwear panties. My fault completely
[2] poetandknowit › god'swife 25-Sep-02/9:42 AM Reply
It is definitely an interesting topic and one that has consumed a good deal of my resources being raised by only a mother. But you are right and a good deal has to do with the overall environment. And I am not sure of your age, but our parents did things a bit differently. I think our generation in general is more self conscious of what we are doing and it reflects in our parenting. But it is still instilled in me that a father is pretty pointless and I think at times it reflects unconsciously and consciously in my parenting.
[9] god'swife › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/11:43 AM Reply
My dear Dr. Longfellows, please understand that as a father you are just as important to your children as any mother. Especially if your raising daughters. If they don't feel loved and needed by you, they will seek masculine approval by other means, and typically with some guy they know you'd hate just to get back at you. As you can tell I am obsessed with men in general, and with my father in particular. Mostly because my father was emotionally distant. Your daughters need your love approval both physically and emotionally. Don't be shy with them. Hug them, kiss them, tell them you love them, that they are beautiful beyond belief. That is the greatest gift a father can give.Get intimate. Your the only father they have. Every relationship the take up with a man will be directly influenced by the relationship they have established or not established with you.
[2] poetandknowit › god'swife 25-Sep-02/12:11 PM Reply
Well, it is not exactly that simple. Like so many other things that go on, there are levels to it. I have two daughters, both magical creatures in their own right and separated by almost 9 years. Emotionally distant would never be an issue with me. Physically distant, well in most cases but not with the certain few. I never wanted children and here I have two, which is an oddity in itself. I believed the acts as an ultimate for of selflessness, I suppose. But like I said, there is much more to this than simple issues of gender, affection and guidance.
[8] <~> › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:35 AM Reply
you see p&k, it is always something about the musicians. and yes, beatingt he drums counts for that, even if you're beating them for war. i'd rather have you beat them for ritual, though. in celebration. on the hunt. come on home, and allow us to offer you the breast.
[n/a] Christof › <~> 25-Sep-02/8:38 AM Reply
This is just the kind of primal stuff that makes me uncomfortable. But rather the breast than the hunt any day.
[8] <~> › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:41 AM Reply
if it makes you uncomfortable, why not confront it christof? why be steered by your fears?
[n/a] Christof › <~> 25-Sep-02/8:43 AM Reply
Which brings me right back to where I started! But you know that old thing about keeping your enemies closer than your friends? I sort of feel that way about fears - they define you as much as your loves. They define your boundaries. I hate them at the same time as loving the tensions they throw up. Now is that weird?
[2] poetandknowit › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:45 AM Reply
I agree Christof. It does not make me uncomfortable, just humors me. I am taking it all from Robert Bly's book "Iron John." He makes a mockery of what it is to be a man, but started a movement to get in touch with the feminine side. Read it someday for a good laugh.
[n/a] Christof › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:47 AM Reply
I think I've seen film of that Bly chap in the woods. There always appears to be crying and howling as well. I get enough of that at home, thanks very much.
[2] poetandknowit › god'swife 25-Sep-02/8:41 AM Reply
PhDs are overrated. So is drunken brawling.
[n/a] Christof › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/8:45 AM Reply
Hey, go steady on the PhD, I've only just got it and it's still shiny and new! I haven't time to get disillusioned yet.
[2] poetandknowit › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:48 AM Reply
Sorry mate. Congrats. English I take it. Mine is in a drawer some five years old now. Ugh. Are you a young buck or just a professional student? So sahll we say Dr. Christof and Dr. poetandknowit.
[n/a] Christof › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:50 AM Reply
Well I'm 28, so youngish. I've been working full-time and studying part-time for the last five years. Yep, it's English - the poetry of Edward Thomas. Yours?
[2] poetandknowit › Christof 25-Sep-02/8:58 AM Reply
Ha. I got mine at twenty-eight. I also have two Masters just for show (one in English). My PhD was on revolutionary movements in Latin America, mostly Shining Path, but how they stretched their movement and inspired other causes (albeit less violent, in neighboring countries and what links could be established between then - i.e. Contras, Zapatistas) Quite a sprawl of a thing and the orals were never ending. But with Che so popular among the youngsters these days, my classes always seem full. phd in International Affairs. Congrats again. I realize the work involved. But now your work will really begin.
[n/a] Christof › poetandknowit 25-Sep-02/9:01 AM Reply
Well my friends, I must be off. There's a train strike today so it's gonna be a 5 mile walk home, so I'd better get going. Till tomorrow, mes amis.
[9] god'swife › Christof 25-Sep-02/9:07 AM Reply
By the by, orphanage face is brilliant as you would say, you rock.
[8] INTRANSIT 25-Sep-02/7:10 PM Reply
I hope you get to this comment.
I've got Isaac Hayes playing and I read it again. I saw it. wow.
[n/a] Christof › INTRANSIT 26-Sep-02/1:08 AM Reply
Thanks very much. I did eventually get to your comment - I have no idea how the topic of parentage got raised. But then I suppose the poem does have a father in it.
[10] Tibbs 25-Sep-02/11:50 PM Reply
Silly bird. Smart poem.
[8] Venus 2-Oct-02/11:41 PM Reply
8/10
[10] daniella 19-Oct-02/10:15 PM Reply
this could be a film, for its 24xsecond imaging in my eye. keep rolling.
[6] Tintagiles 23-Oct-02/6:49 AM Reply
Cromwell was a great socialist. He's the only person in history to manage to get the English, Scots and Irish to agree on something and work together. Unfortunately for him, that thing was hatred of Cromwell. Oh well, you can't have everything, I guess.