It is being published in the Miscellany (along with Party Mugging) following a few changes. What do you make of this new draft (an extra line, a different lay-out and Thou to You) . > O, dearest lady,you curvaceous beast! > You whom Nature has adorned with spills of flesh, > Forgive me, I who once did mock your ocean thighs, > Your roller-coasting tum, your porpoise arms > And wind-swelled cheeks, your rubber dinghy breasts. > Forgive me, for I did not dream > I'd on you float or in you sink and drown. > >

Dear Nicholas, You will get the article in the post, Christmas willing next week. In the meantime, I revised the poem and the Editor of The Miscellany has decide to publish it along with That Girl which is the proper name for Party Mugging (Again). This is the revised Hattie poem. Do you prefer it? HATTIE > O, dearest lady,you curvaceous beast! > You whom Nature has adorned with spills of flesh, > Forgive me, I who once did mock your ocean thighs, > Your roller-coasting tum, your porpoise arms > And wind-swelled cheeks, your rubber dinghy breasts. > Forgive me, for I did not dream > I'd on you float or in you sink and drown. > Editor's comment: You write naturally in longer-breathed lines - minimum tetrameter; up to an alexandrine. > Best wishes, Nicholas

Now we are in agreement. And that is why I gave my dear friends this tribute poem in the spirit of Ogden Nash. I wish I like honey, but I don't. So I can be on there side there. But I am a very principled eater, I suppose.

Your right, or a privilege? (I've given up smiley emoticons, but one would go here if I hadn't.) And I didn't object to your poem at all--it is cute. Cute in the nice, nonpatronizing sense. (Again, no emoticons.) But I do give credit to people who live by their convictions, even those who are overbearing and evangelistic about them (though I cross the street when I see them coming), and while I do find that some vegans take things to extremes, you can really say that about anyone passionate about their beliefs, eh? God, I sound so fucking earnest, don't I? I'll lose my cynic badge. Not sure why I put my oar in anyway--for what it's worth, I have honey (crusty, crunchy like Boulder, CO, probably inedible) in my pantry at this very moment!

Out of touch with what? Your flippant uncaring manner? Your superiority? Your right to be cruel? Why can't you just leave me alone?

You are too funny. And I am far from mysogynist you goofy little girl. I am playful and enthralling and you are simply out of touch.

Of course, we are jesting; as is the poem. So in that sense we can both back up out statements with facts, man. Just the facts. All fair and balanced, of course. The poem never mentions the poor worker bees. I do in a comment. It mentions oppressed nest, which they are, regardless of who is doing the oppressing, and therefore, Vegans do not eat honey and therefore "i" find that "funny". And so should you, at least the poem. Thus, the poem is mocking a lifestyle that (only at times) takes itself excessively seriously. Which I find cute and noble in an odd way. And that is my right as a citizen of the US of A.

Fuck you, leave me the fuck alone you stupid fuck. You never address me in any kind of constructive or even, dare I say it, mature manner. Your just a miserable lout, and I've lost all patience with you. What in the fuck do you care what i comment on his poems? Of course you will counter that you don't care, that you were just calling attention to my silly girlish remark, or that you were just teasing me. You make me feel so tredmendously sad, you have no idea. I'm not sure who's fooling who as I'm watching your decay We both no you could deflate A 7 hurricane Seems like you and your tribe decided you'd re-write the law Segragate the Body from the Soul Don't give me yours but i'll still give you mine I can look your God right in the eye. I believe in defending what we could've stood for. It seems in vogue to be a closet mysogynist. A change of course in our direction A dash of truth spread thinly like a flag. Oh Zion please remove your glove dispel every trace of his spoken word that has lodged in my vortex --oh but no Messiahs need people dying in their name you could have spared me.

on edit--make that "can't" just take them as things vegans often say. Arrgh.

Oh come on--I realize this is a difficult medium in which to convey humor or irony--or maybe it's just my failing--but both the sugar and fair and balanced comments were meant to do so. Of course I'm not fair and balanced about a lot of things--who is? And I can cite titles if you like, but I don't think the arguments I conveyed are so uncommon that you can just take them as "things that vegans often say." I have never heard a vegan say that the reason they didn't eat honey because the workers were oppressed by the queen; apparently you have. Okay, so we've established that. I objected to your pointing to that argument as an example of why most vegans shun honey, since it seemed to be a reason given less commonly than the less ludicrous (to my thinking) ones that I cited. I think that was clear in my original comment. Maybe I'm wrong--you seem to consort with more vegans than I do.

They are nuts. What about fossil fuel? Pineapples? Sugar cane? The clothes on their neurotic backs? Name one thing in this life that is not the product of oppression.

But what exactly are you reporting: a book, an article (propaganda) from veggie times? I am reporting from the front lines. Directly from the Vegan mouth. For Christ Sakes, next to Hawaii and parts of California I live next too the Vegan capital of the nation (Boulder). And whether or not they are armed with every detail of the reasoning behind their noble choices, it usually deduces to statements like these, for time saving purposes I suppose. We all deduce facts to make the sound humorous and ultimately erroneous at times; it it the nature of conversation. Thus, if you sit down at the dinner table with Vegans long enough and not just read about the diet and the reasons of the diet, I swear (scouts honor) that this will eventually pop out. It has not failed yet. And to the other statement, forget bees and sugar: just say eveything is oppressed. It, we, you name it. Birth, whether from the womb of mother or from the factory or from the pollen down the way gives life, which is oppression in itself. And "fair and balanced reporting" -- seriously now!

Yes, we all have quirks. And honey stays out of the vegans' pantries, but not really out of anyone else's, since most people don't really take much notice of anything that might inconvenience them. So I don't really agree that my reporting of their argument (fair and balanced, that's me) proves your poem. Sugar, now, sugar oppresses!

Oh yes, oh my god, no hold it, oh yes, there, oh god, oh my god, Oh MY god. OH MY GOD, yes, yes, Oh YES, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Thank. I feel better now. I shall get to work.

Oh yes, the "rape rock" argument. The cohorts have brought that one about also. Now listen to yourself. You are proving my poem. Who cares if it is fair, and it is accurate, which ever route you prefer: the bees are oppressed, whether by Mr. Beekeeper or by Ms. QB, therefore honey stays out of the pantry. It is just a funny quirk. We all have quirks, eh?

I realize this discussion is old, so pardon its resurrection. I just wanted to say that I've never heard that argument re: vegans and honey. From what I've read (I'm a vegetarian but not vegan), vegans shun honey because they feel that the honey production process is cruel--the stressing of the bees, sometimes the "dewinging" of the Queen, artificial insemination on so-called "rape rocks," etc. While I don't necessarily agree with all they say, having had a partner who kept bees, your explanation makes them all sound like nuts, and I don't think that's fair or accurate.

Thanks very much for the comments. It's so hard to get rid of some words, they are children in the brambles with scratches and dirt but beloved none the less. I shall be merciless. BTW you rock.