Good point, I'll meet you half way.

By the way, I didn't mean for that to sound as smart-ass as it does. I really do like your poems.

damn me and my grammar... Thanks, again...

well, like i said i was not attempting to make them look like that i have other pieces that reflect something different i will post those so i dont look like a testosterone pumped, womanizaing male...because that is something i am far from being

i understand what you are trying to say in the manner that someone may look at this without the knowledge of the background and see the sexist image of it. but this, i think, is a problem with most people today. they read so much into everything and find something offensive in almost everything. i dont want the characters in these to have names, i think it allows the reader to feel themselves fit in the position much better. and i made the remarks towards kidnappers and rapists because thats what i think of when i think of tinted window vans. no im semi confused, i see you dont want me to stereotype men and women, yet you stereotype a teenage male for driving a certain vehicle. hmmm, understandable for someone thats very protective. i myself am skepical of some of the people that drive the cars they do, in a way it is a self expression. i myself have a customized stereo in my car for the soul purpose that i love music and good sound. but now i understand what yer saying and i hope you can see what im saying. thanks for taking your time to read and respond to all this.

And as far as 'taking what i am trying to portray in the wrong manner,' are you aware that you are following a 6,000 year-old tradition of men writing in a condescending fashion about women? Probably very few of those men were conscious of how they participated in and perpetuated a system that allowed for the wholesale repression of half the earth's population; they were just writing about girls they knew, just like you are. So what the hell sort of manner am I supposed to take something like this in? Now, I am the kind of person who right or wrong believes writers and other artists are obliged to be aware of that tradition and, by any of several means, avoid continuing it. I have suggested one way to avoid generalizing all women as man-worshipping dolts; there are many others. If you'd like, I can tell you about them.

thank you... i really appreciate your input. :) sarah

Who cares what people think before its finished? ... If people said it was good when you had another idea, you probebly won't change it, when the other idea might make it ten times better!

Who said anything about hating? Please pay attention: I said explicitly that if this poem is about a specific person then of course it's fine because if poetry should be allowed to do anything, that thing should be to faithfully depict real-life circumstances in an interesting or original fashion. Yes, I do believe that. However, if I attempted any kind of generalization out of these two poems, it would be that women in general are rather weak and flighty and men are strong and patronizing. This is something you should be aware of people doing when reading your poems, and possibly correct with something as simple as naming the woman in this poem "Sarah" or something, so that at worst we can only generalize that women named Sarah are weak and flighty, or at least have a better idea that you're speaking of a specific person you know and not commenting on the intelligence of all women. This has NOTHING TO DO with what you meant to say. And I didn't say anything about you being a rapist or kidnapper. I suggested that if I had a teenaged daughter (which I don't) and you were a teenaged boy who drove a customized van, perhaps with flame decals around the hood, or a custom sound system and vibrating fold-out waterbed and blacklight (which you almost certainly don't), I wouldn't let you take her out for a date. Don't take it personally: I'm a very protective hypothetical father like that.

and also...i think you are taking what i am trying to portray in the wrong manner. the story of the girl is based on a friend of mine, suffering from mental disorders that affect her greatly. i support when ever is needed and stay by her side through her suicidal tendencies to help stop her from doing something regretable. now the story of the guy is about me. i feel my life is a waste, i shouldnt be here yet because i feel like no one understands me or what im trying to say. this is a perfect example, i think people take one thing i say and put it into a different context. im sorry you took it the way you did. at no time was i ever trying to portray the male as being stronger and the female. they support each other day in day out. i hope this explaination helps you understand better and never refer to me driving a fucking van, im not a soccer mom. nor am i a rapist or kidnapper, far from both. so please, dont take my words the wrong way, sorry for the confusion

so im a kidnapper now? and yes, they are supposed to be related together. and wow, i guess i suck or something man...i have never been hated that much for this piece...hmm, im sorry...i will take it off then